Message Area
Casually read the BBS message area using an easy to use interface. Messages are categorized exactly like they are on the BBS. You may post new messages or reply to existing messages!

You are not logged in. Login here for full access privileges.

Previous Message | Next Message | Back to English Tutoring for Students of...  <--  <--- Return to Home Page
   Networked Database  English Tutoring for Students of...   [766 / 900] RSS
 From   To   Subject   Date/Time 
Message   Alexander Koryagin    Ardith Hinton   They knows?   March 5, 2019
 9:19 AM *  

Hi, Ardith Hinton : Alexander Koryagin!
I read your message from 04.03.2019 14:42

 AK>> I found in Wikipedia information that "they" can be used as single
 AK>> pronoun:

 AK>> _SINGULAR THEY_ is the use in English of the pronoun _they_ or its
 AK>> inflected  or  derivative  forms,   _them_,   _their_,   _theirs_,
 AK>> and _themselves_ (or _themself_),  as an epicene  (gender-neutral)
 AK>> singular  pronoun.   It  typically  occurs  with  an   unspecified
 AK>> antecedent, as in sentences such as:

 AK>> "_The patient_ should be told at the outset how much  _they_  will
 AK>> be required to pay." "But _a journalist_ should not be  forced  to
 AK>> reveal _their_ sources."

 AH> I can see some justification for it here, because it is easier than
 AH> writing "s/he" and "him/her" or trying to reason with a person  who
 AH> feels their (!) gender is being ignored although they don't  notice
 AH> when the shoe is on the other foot.  My CANADIAN  OXFORD,  however,
 AH> lists "themself" as "disputed". :-)

I remember that in Russia a tsar used plural pronouns for a single person. He
wrote his decrees in the following way: "We, the great tsar of Russia,
declare..."

 AK>> The singular _they_ had emerged  by  the  14th  century,  about  a
 AK>> century after plural _they_.  It has  been  commonly  employed  in
 AK>> everyday English ever since then,  though it has become the target
 AK>> of criticism since the late-19th century.

 AH> Hmm.  Fowler's cites some evidence in support of this idea, but I'm
 AH> doubtful "they" was  commonly  used  as  a  gender-neutral  pronoun
 AH> between the late 1900's & the 1960's or early  1970's...  when  the
 AH> feminists adopted  it...  except  maybe  when  people  thought  the
 AH> government should fix something.  Typically when grammarians  voice
 AH> an objection they encounter more popular resistance.... :-Q

It is difficult to fight with people when they have a bad habit. I remember a
thing from Pygmalion, by Bernard Shaw:
-----Beginning of the citation-----
HIGGINS.  How the devil do I know what's to become of you?  What does it
matter what becomes of you?

LIZA. You don't care. I know you don't care.  You wouldn't care if I was
dead. I'm nothing to you -- not so much as them slippers.

HIGGINS [thundering] THOSE slippers.
----- The end of the citation -----

I still cannot see the logic why she used _them_ instead of _those_. ;-) It is
not a kind of error a Russian could make. :)

 AK>> Its use in formal English has become more common  with  the  trend
 AK>> toward gender-neutral language,

 AH> It has become more common in recent years, but not because the mood
 AH> at the time of its resurgence took into account that our  ancestors
 AH> knew things we might well pay attention to.  Quite the  contrary...
 AH> Jerry Rubin,  e.g.,  made headlines when he advised other folks not
 AH> to trust anybody over 30.  I suppose they must  have  followed  his
 AH> advice because he doesn't make headlines now. ;-)

I imagine what does a foreign student think when he hears the sentence like the
 first sentence in last paragraph. ;) After reading it ten times I think I
understood what you meant. ;=)

Bye, Ardith!
Alexander Koryagin
english_tutor 2019

---
 * Origin: nntps://fidonews.mine.nu - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/6.0)
  Show ANSI Codes | Hide BBCodes | Show Color Codes | Hide Encoding | Hide HTML Tags | Show Routing
Previous Message | Next Message | Back to English Tutoring for Students of...  <--  <--- Return to Home Page

VADV-PHP
Execution Time: 0.0838 seconds

If you experience any problems with this website or need help, contact the webmaster.
VADV-PHP Copyright © 2002-2024 Steve Winn, Aspect Technologies. All Rights Reserved.
Virtual Advanced Copyright © 1995-1997 Roland De Graaf.
v2.0.140505

Warning: Unknown: open(c:\Sessions\sess_uqeb8c4i7b3knblahrtpu3pvg3, O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (c:\Sessions) in Unknown on line 0 PHP Warning: session_start(): open(c:\Sessions\sess_uqeb8c4i7b3knblahrtpu3pvg3, O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in D:\wc5\http\public\VADV\include\common.inc.php on line 45 PHP Warning: Unknown: open(c:\Sessions\sess_uqeb8c4i7b3knblahrtpu3pvg3, O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2) in Unknown on line 0 PHP Warning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (c:\Sessions) in Unknown on line 0